Apache :: Other domain name for ApacheLounge.com ?

Steffen

Frequent I have discussions with Apache Software Foundation (ASF) about legal issues, maybe you remember about the Apache feather and had to close the site. Now they come with a new one:

Lately the ASF is going after domain names which have the word "Apache" in them, like apachelounge.com. It is embarrassing to me, but this kind of excessive brand-name protection is very much a U.S. behavior. The ASF is bombarding me with legal stuff in US-English, which I do not understand (I have no lawyer education and my English is not that good). Of course I understand the threads like the sentence: ... correcting it within one week from today. And I am really afraid of the US-law. Although it is a Dutch site, not sure how far the US-law can reach.

The best way is to have an other domain name, is to keep this site running without troubles. And it is better for my hart Smile

Any suggestions for a new domain name are welcome, thanks.

Steffen

Millennium · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 179 Location: Leiderdorp, NL, EU

Not sure, but I guess You should use something with httpd, which is the product, and so covers the content of this site.

Guess HTTPD Lounge is to easy thinking?

James Blond

I won't change the domain name so fast. There are so many other domains e.g. apachefriends.org

You sould add a legal notice at the header or footer of the page like

Steffen

Thanks.

The legal notice is on the Forum Index page(at the bottom), the ASF agrees with that. They want now an agreement with Apache Brand Management ?

The ASF told me that they also chasing other domains, they wrote:.. [Now to chase down a few more sites... sigh]...

Maybe it's me, but all that legal stuff makes me nervous.

Steffen

James Blond

Hey Steffen,
don't be too much worried. Behind the ASF are mostly developers. Even if it doesn't seem that way, they are all humans. Wink

I think you will resolve the other issues too. If ya need more help you know my email adress.

Steffen

ASF is also a foundation with staff, lawyers and there is quite some money going on there. I know that they have/had same discussions with IBM, Sun etc. etc. and mostly they pay money to ASF.

A quote from the ASF: ... Hate to tell you this, but we've done this to many many others, like IBM, JBoss and yes Covalent....

So for me the ASF is more then a group of developers. it is more company like.

Looks like ASF has no trademark registered in Europe, could not find it at http://oami.europa.eu/ows/rw/pages/index.en.do

After all maybe I just let ASF going their own way and not responding anymore on any legal request.

Steffen

Kanashii · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 155 Location: Porando

Just move server to ~Africa or Moon

glsmith

Apachelounge.nl

The ASF's Unregistered trademark has some weight in the US, the .com root is located in the US and therefore the name could possibly be seized by a US court if they got nasty (can anyone say wilileaks). I'm not sure they would have as much luck in the NL trying to take it away a .nl domain from someone living in the NL. Of course, Millennium's suggestion isn't bad either, or, LoungeApache. That makes me thing of an Native American sitting in his/her lounge chair.

You have had the domain since February 2003, that's over 8 years, I'm sure that would play to your favor since in the US, 7 years is the length of time we have to keep our tax records. Many crimes even have a 7 year statute of limitation. If the ASF hasn't enforced their "mark" in all those years, the may not have grounds to do so now.

I think that the feather, which you had taken off after the '05 incident, coming back is what arose suspicion, I see it is removed again. Still, in the US there are fair use rights, I just do not know how to apply them in this situation. You could use it to make a joke of them however.

I guess we will just have to see how things play out.

Virsacer · Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Posts: 108 Location: Germany, Darmstadt

Apache seems to be a common name:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_%28disambiguation%29

I dont think that youll get trouble because of the name...

tdonovan

I'm no lawyer either, but it seems that posting the disclaimer should be enough to keep a Dutch web site safe from the current aggressive American behavior about trademarks. Europeans seem to be a bit less uptight about such things. I see lots of corporate logos on fan-clubs, user-groups, etc. - and I really doubt they all have "OK to use" agreements with the corporations they support.

Legal scare stories are a U.S. cultural thing. e.g. "you can be sued for trivial mistakes", "if you don't defend your brand name against your enthusiasts, you'll lose it", and "the U.S. government will come get you if you distribute OpenSSL", etc. In our defense (I'm a U.S. citizen), we can also produce some legal humor too. The common defense against trademark infringement is the Moron-in-a-Hurry argument.

I've been following Apache Lounge on and off since 2006, and I have yet to see anyone mistake AL or its distributions for official ASF products. We certainly have had a few "morons in a hurry" appear in the forums over the years. None of them ever confused AL with ASF - and certainly no one who actually runs a web server(presumably not a moron) would ever do so. You surely comply with the spirit of the Apache trademark, if not the ever-slippery letter of the U.S. trademark laws.

If I were you, I would leave the disclaimers in place; and just not worry about changing the domain name, hiring any lawyers, or signing any agreements. I really doubt the ASF means to discourage its supporters. That just doesn't make sense. I suspect it was just some routine ASF chore to send emails to all "*apache*" web sites, and whoever sent you the note might not realize where AL is located.

Maybe you should put a few of those cool Dutch words with lots of syllables on the home page? Something like: randjongerenhangplekkenbeleidsambtenarensalarisbesprekingsafspraken, for example.

-tom-

p.s. It's interesting that the U.S. Boeing corporation has registered European "Apache" and "Apache Longbow" trademarks. They must be worried about people passing off fake attack helicopters, or else they just have a much bigger legal budget than the ASF does.

Brian · Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 209 Location: Puyallup, WA USA

I wouldn't entirely dismiss the value in protecting trademarks. It certainly would be an infringement for Microsoft to use the Apache Feather in association with their IIS web server.

It wouldn't be very well received for Nike to see their swoosh on a competitors shoes.

That being said, it isn't a matter of "everyone is doing it" as much as it is of potential or realized damages. AL is not causing any damage, in any way shape, or form to the ASF. If AL starts using the Apache name and Logo's and then promotes Zues, IIS, or other web servers in conjunction with beating up on Apache and ASF then there is an issue.

Since AL is strongly in support of the ASF, and considering AL as removed the Feather, and finally considering the history of Steffen and some of the AL users having had some loose relationships for quite along time now with the ASF (or at least some contributors) both directly and indirectly I for one would not entertain any more of their emails.