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 Topic: Future of ApacheLounge |
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fseesink
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Mon 20 Aug '07 16:45 Post subject: Future of ApacheLounge |
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On the spartan main page now it reads "The Apache Lounge FORUM and DOWNLOAD (through Apache version 2.2.4)
areas will remain available temporarily."
Does this mean you don't intend to continue offering a Windows binary of Apache 2.2.x, or that you'll be closing down the forums? I apologize for being one of the silent masses on your site, but I do visit regularly and find your contribution to the Apache community to be quite helpful. Not only do you provide people with SSL-capable Windows binaries of Apache--that even the ASF does not--which I have used since around v2.2.0, but the forums have come in handy at times as well.
I understand the ASF's legal need to protect their name/logo/etc. It's an unfortunate reality in the American legal system that if they do not actively protect their trademarks/etc., that sets a precedent that can be used against them later if they then choose to enforce it..."You didn't do it with XYZ, so clearly it's not important to you" kind of arguments. It sucks, but there you have it.
But I hope it does not dissuade you from keeping the site going. Though I can understand how it might come across, I don't think (hope) the ASF is trying to strong-arm you or to intentionally be jerks. Their lawyers are just doing what's necessary so that in the future, should someone really abuse their logo/etc., they're on solid legal footing.
Anyway, just wanted to give a note of support to you, and to thank you for all you've done so far. The Windows binaries of Apache itself, and especially all the modules, is greatly appreciated, as it saves those of us who use it both time and effort. And here's hoping you keep at it. |
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Steffen
Moderator
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3094
Location: Hilversum, NL, EU
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| Posted: Mon 20 Aug '07 19:22 Post subject: |
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Better that I do not respond to your questions now.
Thanks for the support. I am aware of a silent masses, the forum is read a lot daily. Quite busy site.
Feel free to leave note at the Apache Development Main Discussion List at http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html
Stay tuned for the upcoming 2.2.6
Steffen |
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lawrephordapach2
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
Location: canada ontario thunder bay
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| Posted: Tue 21 Aug '07 1:44 Post subject: wanted stories about your troubles learning apache |
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| place them as reply here please ? THANKYOU ! |
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CameronY
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 13
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Tue 21 Aug '07 4:59 Post subject: |
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It's a shame that ASF have taken such action.
Whilst full details between ASF & AL are obviously confidential, it is a fair call to reitterate how fantastic AL have been in the promotion of Apache since the inception of the AL website.
Many thanks to you Steffen for all of your efforts past, present and ongoing. And hope that any legal issues are resolved quickly and for the benefit of all involved.
I recall unix.com went through (a kinda similar) legal headache sometime ago.
Cheers,
Cameron Y |
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fax
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue 21 Aug '07 7:54 Post subject: |
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Fusion
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue 21 Aug '07 17:40 Post subject: |
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I have to echo the sentiments of CameronY.
I may not be the most vocal visitor here, but I am one of the most frequent.
I've been a faithful patron of yours ever since the early days of the Sambar server, and will probably find ways to peek in elsewhere should this forum get shut down as a result of this debacle.
Thank you, Steffen, for all your work. |
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underxp
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed 22 Aug '07 15:35 Post subject: |
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| Steffen, a BIG THANKS for all your heavy work to maintance this site and help the Windows community with the bests Apache modules and binaries. |
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sctemme
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu 23 Aug '07 2:24 Post subject: |
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Cameron, Steffen, others,
| CameronY wrote: | | It's a shame that ASF have taken such action. |
Any organization has to defend their trademarks in any situation. You can't pick and choose, and choose to leave the "good guys" alone: the "bad guys" will point back at your inaction towards the "good guys" and use that as argument. Typical, sad example of grown people acting like children, and unfortunately is necessitates that the ASF guard the use of their trademark universally. And believe me, you are the "good guys" here.
| CameronY wrote: | | Whilst full details between ASF & AL are obviously confidential, it is a fair call to reitterate how fantastic AL have been in the promotion of Apache since the inception of the AL website. |
Confidential? Naah. Steffen was sent several personal e-mails, which he chose to re-post to a public forum (the dev@httpd.apache.org list) and a discussion ensued in that public forum which can be read on http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/httpd-dev/. Nothing sinister there.
| CameronY wrote: | | Many thanks to you Steffen for all of your efforts past, present and ongoing. And hope that any legal issues are resolved quickly and for the benefit of all involved. |
I second this. Sites like Steffen's are invaluable to the Apache community and as far as I know nobody wants to see it go. Windows is an important but under-represented platform for Apache, and the more activity the better. It'd be nice to see more of you on the users@httpd.apache.org mailinglist, but if the format of a web forum has better appeal, more power to you.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing bad going on here, and nothing that can't be fixed when the people involved simply stop sulking. The ASF doesn't like the feather to be used outside the foundation, but that's been dealt with, gone. The page I'm looking at right now has no trademark over it besides a Microsoft Windows logo (and if you didn't like what we sent you, just wait until Microsoft starts caring). Problem's solved, no problem left that I can see. And, have you asked if you can use the feather logo? Perhaps a quick e-mail to prc@apache.org will make all this panic go away.
Secondly, the Apache HTTP Server developers don't like if if you throw release candidates up on the site. We have asked you this several times in the past. I don't know that we have any power to stop you from doing so, but we want to prevent confusion and we want to prevent folks from thinking that a release candidate is the same as a release. Look at what happened with 2.2.5: the release was pulled, it wasn't released, and as far as the httpd people are concerned doesn't exist.
I know you want to give your visitors the opportunity to test the release, but there's a more elegant way to do that: put the release up on your site out of the way, and start a Forum thread announcing the availability. But keep it off the front page until it's released. You're fulfilling an especially important role in this since the HTTPD group doesn't make Windows builds of the RCs available, and we'd love to help you do this as effectively as possible. There's especially no need for an adversarial relationship.
Finally, we suggested that you put a notice on your site stating that you're not affiliated with the ASF. That's not a threat either, but a simple clarification that spells out what the relationship is. It'll give you the opportunity to say things without fear that anyone will confuse your words for those from the Apache developers, the foundation or anyone else, or the reverse, and I think that this is in everyone's best interest.
Please consider the above, and take away that alarmist front page that does nothing besides suggest animosity that doesn't exist.
Regards,
Sander Temme (httpd developer and Apache Software Foundation member, but speaking as a private person) |
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Steffen
Moderator
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3094
Location: Hilversum, NL, EU
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| Posted: Thu 23 Aug '07 15:54 Post subject: |
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| sctemme wrote: | And, have you asked if you can use the feather logo? Perhaps a quick e-mail to prc@apache.org will make all this panic go away.
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Yes a quick e-mail but no response for days
| sctemme wrote: | | but there's a more elegant way to do that: put the release up on your site out of the way, and start a Forum thread announcing the availability. |
We do that it always your way, see e.g. www.apachelounge.com/viewtopic.php?t=1836
| sctemme wrote: | | we suggested that you put a notice on your site stating that you're not affiliated with the ASF |
See the top text when you are logged out from the forum: using the Apache server on windows from the The Apache Software Foundation (the Apache Lounge is not affiliated with the ASF).
Steffen |
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